can we do this? gunsmith has been around for years and there has never been an objectively good gun setup, and thats because guns are horrible for competitive. Giving one person the ability to remove another from the game is a terrible idea for competitions and is ridiculously easy to throw games/troll with. Yeah, guns are fun but fun has never been the #1 priority for the competition and variety has never been a factor when deciding to ban the dozens of roles and setups that arent allowed to be made competitive.
Those limitations are there to increase fun. There's no fun in a gallis hunter round.
Gallis hunter is only fun for farming points
deleteddeletedover 11 years ago
gun setups being easily throwable is a decent argument; guns being fun is a terrible argument because the whole point of mafia is fun it's just that people have different definitions for fun. Some people think shooting guns is fun whilst others find scumhunting setups like VDLI and BV their cup of tea, in the end it's all subjective.
I don't see a reason to blacklist an entire mechanic from comp play. I loathe gun setups but some trophy winners love them and would like to see a round with a fun gun setup (see: hollywood illusions). It's not worth blacklisting imo, just blacklist the hilariously unbalanced setups and you're fine.
Terrible though "Who Ruined the Christmas" is, those stats are pretty much the ideal you want to aim for. 50/50 setups are not the ideal at all because for above average players they're essentially townsided.
deleteddeletedover 11 years ago
if this is a gaming website for fun then unblacklist hate me so i can play it for hearts. let gallis hunter be made competitive so i can run next round. theres always been a limitation in competitive rounds that puts fun aside for spirit of competition
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deleteddeletedover 11 years ago
the real reason why i want gunsmith banned is because nobody funguns me and frankly i am feeling internet bullied and unloved so nobody is allowed to be fungunned anymore if i cant
Yeah, which is why I think pushing for every 5th round instead of every 3rd and clearly outlining what falls under the variants rule would help out a bit.
At the very least there'd be more diversity. Regardless if it has anything to do with guns.
To be fair the best players aren't going to win trophies all the time. There's a huge luck element in mafia that is integral to the game that you cannot eliminate. However, I do think there are ways to mitigate that in such that skill becomes more important.
In short - extremist/idealist me would like to see guns banned. Realistic me thinks there's a more middle of the road solution that can be more inclusive while pushing for more diversity, which I think is near the core of the issue.
deleteddeletedover 11 years ago
You know, objectively speaking, people have been trying to balance a setup with a gunsmith since the beginning of time and not one is in a marginal rate where town/mafia have at least a ~5-6% chance difference.
Regressive measures like these are always favoured by people after the 'pure mafia' concept which doesn't exist in practice and which when attempted to be enforced in the past has seen activity numbers drop because this is a gaming website, for fun.
Anyone with a head would know the more luck oriented the harder it is to run. Luck doesn't have anything to do with it.
People just like the feeling of being in control. Guns let them feel that
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deleteddeletedover 11 years agoedited
celebrity cant instantly choose to remove players from the game, bombs cant instantly choose to remove players from the game, oracle cant instantly choose to remove players from the game. sheriff and deputy can. they eliminate the process of scumhunting because your reads dont matter unless the gunned player knows you as a good player and values your lead. celebrity, bomb and other clears still have to lead a lynch that isn't always listened to. gunned players dont, the process of lynching is eliminated, and if the gunned player takes too long to shoot then its lylo with the timer already rundown and everythings just a big mess.
night ones have inherent randomness that cant be avoided, but most roles like bomb or oracle that can reveal/kill players have trade-offs with rare exceptions like granny, but granny is never seen in competitive anyway.
deleteddeletedover 11 years ago
That's a bit of an exaggeration but we've some really mediocre players get carried on gun setups since Vancy became admin and loosened the restrictions.
I don't think banning guns from competition would lead to their rise in red hearts. I'm still of the mindset gun setups are popular because they're more luck oriented so it's easy to be mediocre and carried to a trophy as a result.
Gun setup mindset: "I will give you a trophy, you just have to flip heads 35/50 times with this coin"
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