Anyone not in the game (including mods) is not allowed to tell you how to play this setup. If you think a certain action is playing towards your win condition, you have every right to take that action. However, there are certain situations where you must follow follow some rules. Asking people to read this thread during the game is NOT OGI.
If you have to choose between two options in the game and those options will lead to 1) certain loss or 2) even a 0.000001% chance to win, you must do #2. It is gamethrowing to do #1. Example scenarios are below:
For the purposes of this guide, SCUM = Spy/Stalker/Killer
1: You are Hunter/Agent/Vigilante/Jailer in a 3-way with Killer & Spy/Stalker:
Voting anything other than "no lynch" IS GT.
If you are Jailer, and you no lynch, jailing either of them IS GT.
If you are Vigilante, and you no lynch, shooting at night is NOT GT. If killer kills mafia and mafia no kills, you can only win by shooting killer.
2: You are Hunter/Agent/Vigilante/Jailer in a 4-way with Killer and Spy/Stalker:
If Vigilante and one other town are alive, and the town thinks that scum does not know who the vig is, then lynching mafia is NOT GT.
If Vigilante is not alive or if scum knows the vigilante, then voting anything other than "no lynch" IS GT.
If you no lynch, and you are Vigilante, then shooting at night is NOT GT.
If you NL, and you are Jailer, and Vigilante is known by scum or is dead, then jailing anyone IS GT.
3: 5-way with 2 scum alive:
Lynching known hunter IS GT.
If you know a scum, then no lynching IS GT, because you can lynch one scum that day and another tomorrow instead of going into 4- or 3- way with 2 scum.
If you lynch on a 5 way, then shooting as Vig is NOT GT.
If you NL, then jailing or jailkilling is NOT GT.
If you are lynched as Hunter, Vig is dead or known to scum, and killer/a mafia role are alive, then shooting as hunter IS GT.
4: If you are scum in a 3-way involving Killer, Mafia, Town:
Lynching Hunter is NOT GT. But it is against the win condition of the Hunter to lynch. Therefore, the Hunter will propose to NL, otherwise they will shoot you. This puts you at a greater risk. You can then make a pact with the other scum and NL and kill the Hunter at night. It is NOT GT to betray or to not betray even though you get a higher payout if you betray and kill the other scum. It is a choice you can make to maximize your payout over several games by setting up your meta that you do not betray.
Lynching the other scum is NOT GT if the town is voting with you.
I've likely missed some stuff, so mods please comment any other scenarios with rules to be enforced and I can add them. There are many other scenarios where some actions are suboptimal, but they are subjective to the situation, so we cannot pre define rules for them.
It's not GT if you have 0.00001% chance to win, so if you don't know which scum is which, you still can get the chance to get the mafia while the vig deals with the killer. It's a higher chance than hoping for a double backstab.
@ lazy- that is why i have asked the mods to make announcements so that people know what is certain loss and what isnt. It isnt gt if they dont know what they are doing.
deleteddeletedover 8 years agoedited
Pranay did good job on this tbh, making a pseudo guide which states several if not all possible scenarios for all alignments and roles to avoid gting. My only problem w/ this is the gt definition which states it must be intentional, in which someone can argue that they intended to win w/ their actions. For example a noob hunter lynching themselves on lylo in order to kill a maf/killer in order to win despite still losing.
the concept has nothing to do with the chance of winning being zero or not, and I think our broader disagreement hinges on this classification. If the win chance were not zero, but the strategy was still dominated, you would still call it game throwing, I think. correct me if i'm wrong
Dominant strategy is the term used when both strategies have a chance of winning. Not when one strategy gives you certain loss. You sound like a 8th grade kid who just stumbled upon the phrase dominant strategy.
deleteddeletedover 8 years agoedited
then the action where there is a chance to win is considered to dominate the action which is certain loss?
it's very relevant because it's the distinction between strategies which, according to some possible outcomes, can be good, and strategies which are never a good choice no matter what. in the former case we agree it is not game throwing, the latter case is where we have our disagreement
Arc. The cases i listed are not dominant strats. They are binary outcome scenario. One action means certain loss. Other action means chance to win.
Markus- wrong assessment of my thread.
There are many scenarios where different actions optimal and suboptimal. None of the scenarios i listed have anything to do with dominant strategy. Arc is just using the word without understanding it and thinks he looks cool. There are no two ways to interpret what I have listed.
deleteddeletedover 8 years ago
pranay thinks that because it's second nature to him to identify dominant strategies whenever they present in mafia games, it should be illegal for anyone else to fail to do so.
