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[POLL] Scumclaims and partners

Enamoredalmost 12 years ago

Should claiming scum and/or outing your partner ever be tolerated, even as a WIFOM "tactic", or should it be outlawed completely no matter the circumstance?

"Gamethrowing" is in quotation marks because it cannot be guaranteed to be truly gamethrowing, but would be treated as such.

Poll
What do you think?
WIFOM "tactic" should be permittable75%36
Considered a form of "gamethrowing"14%7
Get its own violation10%5
48 votes
Simsalmost 12 years ago
who cares
Atrophyalmost 12 years ago
for example if i am doing a wifom everyone knows they r not smarter then me so it becomes effectively nulled.

if xxerox does a wifom everyone thinks they r smarter then him and can figure out what he did, so now it exists... since xxerox doesnt think they r able 2 figure it out
Stevenalmost 12 years ago
You're so wrong about that Connor. Town can get information from WIFOM full well knowing what it is
Atrophyalmost 12 years ago
well if u can get people to try to decipher ur wifom, then it still exists. the whole point of wifom is when u try to make a player think they r smarter than u can can figure out what wifom u did, but in reality u did 1 more. wifom only works if the person trying to figure it out thinks they r smarter, at which point it exists even if everyone recognizes its wifom
11
Enamoredalmost 12 years ago
if every player in a game recognises a statement from a mafia player is intended to be a mindgame, that statement effectively no longer exists.
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
As long as WIFOM is perceived to be a legitimate strategy by the person using it, you can't give them a violation for employing it.
Stevenalmost 12 years ago
Yeah it really was the case before, I have no clue when it was changed. Probably about the time when people stopped trying to objectify gamethrowing, which is a good thing
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Let's introduce SilentMafia, a game invented, created, and sponsored by Connor.

"Because anything could be gamethrowing."
Enamoredalmost 12 years ago
Steven
No it's not stupid, mafia is about mind games
no it's not lol. it's not even a mindgame. if everyone in the game recognises it's WIFOM, it effectively doesn't exist
Stevenalmost 12 years ago
Atrophy
Steven
Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?
because mafia is not pretending to throw, they are pretending to make a mistake, which is not against the rules (making a mistake)
Fair enough
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Sims
i think pretending to gt should be treated as actual gamethrowing
Quite. This was in fact against the rules for a long long time. I do believe it got changed at some point, maybe during Laexio's time, for some reason or another. Someone going on a crusade over it, no doubt.
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Yes, Connor, but it could be Wifom!
Atrophyalmost 12 years ago
peoples peoples please lets not resort to callin each othur stupids
Enamoredalmost 12 years ago
Vancy
Enamored
it's a stupid reason
Anything else?
Enamored
Reasons to disallow all forms of scumclaims and partner outings, both true and false:
- Prevents them from ruining games because the recipients assumed they were gamethrowing
- Prevents gamethrowers from pretending they were WIFOMing
- Prevents them from pointlessly clogging up games by adding pseudo-levels of thinking, which in reality bog down to "did he do it or nah"
Subolgalmost 12 years ago
Yea, I feel like you have to take it on a case to case basis. A lot of absolutist rules wouldn't work in Mafia since it's essentially a game about wifom.
Atrophyalmost 12 years ago
Steven
Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?
because mafia is not pretending to throw, they are pretending to make a mistake, which is not against the rules (making a mistake)
Stevenalmost 12 years agoedited
No it's not stupid, mafia is about mind games
1
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Enamored
it's a stupid reason
Anything else?
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Enamored
giving town a hint would be gamethrowing. so why isn't giving them a "hint" gamethrowing?
Bussing is giving town a "hint"
2
Enamoredalmost 12 years ago
it's a stupid reason
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years ago
Enamored
Reasons to allow scumclaims and partner outings:
- It could be WIFOM!??!!??!?!?!
yes
1
Enamoredalmost 12 years ago
Reasons to disallow all forms of scumclaims and partner outings, both true and false:
- Prevents them from ruining games because the recipients assumed they were gamethrowing
- Prevents gamethrowers from pretending they were WIFOMing
- Prevents them from pointlessly clogging up games by adding pseudo-levels of thinking, which in reality bog down to "did he do it or nah"

Reasons to allow scumclaims and partner outings:
- It could be WIFOM!??!!??!?!?!
Stevenalmost 12 years ago
Why is the last one acceptable atrophy?
deleteddeletedalmost 12 years agoedited
Enamored
the basis of making it a form of "gamethrowing" would be to assume under all circumstances that undertaking these actions are done with the intent to hurt your team, as no one with intent to help the team would ever undertake such actions

"But you can't just assume that its done with the intention of hurting your team. You have to take it by a case to case basis. If someone legitimately thinks outting their partners as WIFOM is a good idea, it isn't game-throwing."

Not everyone thinks logically 100% of the time. People think differently.
Atrophyalmost 12 years ago
examples:

gamethrowing:

- argument happens in night phase, frustrated mafia is confirmed, gives up and out partner

trolling/ogi:

- mafia is confirmed and pretends to give up and out partner
- mafia pretends to not care about winning, pretending to troll the game with various hints about who mafia is

acceptable:

- mafia starts outing various contradictory players as mafia, or does it in a way that no reasonable person would think is anything but wifom.
- mafia accidentally outs partner with a grammatical slip
- mafia pretends to accidentally out partner with a grammatical slip