Uh I don't really see the point in lynching virgin claims.

Swap the fool for a hooker and we have a great setup

I said all I had about this setup on the setup page. I think it's terrible.

I respect your opinion but I think this is just as competitively viable as SK vs Mafia. As for whether SK vs Mafia is competitively viable, that's another matter.

And as for comparing it to FT3, I don't think so. There's no cop, vig, or hooker.

It might be like FT3 without the night roulette, which is better IMO, because at least it emphasizes scumhunting

fwiw i really wanted fool to be a viable role in comp about two-three years ago, but after mulling it over, it's just too hard to make a third party competitive setup

killer setups are sort of exempt from this because they play their own game within the confines of the game, most third party roles either play their own game outside the confines of the game (i.e. alien, cthulu, etc.) or are subject to the power struggle between town/mafia and have no real viable way to affect the game's outcome (i.e. survivor)

fool is stuck being subjected to playing for mafia while simultaneously having to avoid death without claiming

If you compare it to staple competitive setups of course it looks bad. It uses fool and virgin. But for what it is, as compared to other setups of the same variety, I think it is much better.

MissyKissy

Can't the mafia also kill the fool?

only in the scenario where fool doesn't CC, we're assuming that the accepted and consistent meta for d1 is that fool CCs virgin

Compare it to SK vs Mafia though. I think it's better!

By sonseray's logic if this is how he wants the setup to be played, town will just randomly cc mafia or fool or whatever they want, it'll be terrible

Yes @MissyKissy

Can't the mafia also kill the fool?

fool claiming d1:

scenario a:
- fool is lynched
- fool wins

scenario b:
- virgin is lynched
- mafia can't kill n2
- d2 sixway fool does nothing but sit on their hands
- town lynches in a 1/5 scenario to win, 4/5 to mislynch and lead to a joint win

fool not claiming d1:

- neither fool nor mafia CC virgin
- town lynches in a 1/6 to win, but also a 1/6 to lynch fool for a fool win
- if town lynches in the 2/3 to lynch a blue, mafia kills virgin n2
- d2 town has a 1/5 chance to lynch mafia and fool
- n3 mafia NKs and fool claims.

you essentially just made fool training 3 but with a ML

Slowbro

what is mafia's optimal move d1? lynch virgin then survive lynches until they can joint with fool?

Yes.

Fool not ccing is dumb imo because fool would be blowing a chance at a day one win, which is actually the biggest flaw in the setup in favor of fool IMO.

what is mafia's optimal move d1? lynch virgin then survive lynches until they can joint with fool?

the setup is poor as well, though

i don't understand why fool needs to CC d1

i was talking about rutab's virginity

Terrible as compared to what? LOBL or SK vs Mafia? I don't think it's fair to compare it to setups it is not trying to be.

terrible

So what do you guys think about Rutab's Virginity?

Satan

Goodbar

Fam

Goodbar

rutab

Also jokes on you I'm actually not a virgin anymore :D

very disappointing

Jesus would not approve

why would u steal this from me? i showed this to u in confidence

spread the good news friend

I'm not saying this is the perfect assessment of skill at mafia, but I think this is objectively more skill based and better designed than SK vs Mafia, for instance.

Hibiki

fool stops claiming virgin, mafia fool roleswaps etc. it's not thought out it's just a clusterfuck

I think you're discrediting it because of the roles it uses, but the concept is actually pretty intricate and I'm pretty confident it is also functional for the most part.

Mafia fool roleswaps are freaking awesome imo, though I doubt they'd happen very often. If fool stops claiming virgin, town gets the clear and it's about 50/50 again.

Look at it closely, instead of assuming no thought was put into it because fool IMO

also mafia lose if they claim virgin alongside fool