https://epicmafia.com/game/4036106?password=0d9cd2e2f346a0722af607639bc355b663574ef0

beat the mods at dice

i agree mod me, ill do every report

#modfannychmelar

i won dice :]

I still like having the lawyer cc cop, with the jan as a standby to get lynched in a cc battle in case the cop is janned

https://epicmafia.com/game/4036037?password=0d9cd2e2f346a0722af607639bc355b663574ef0

dice in main bc it's the weekend

All I read was meta changing and both those changes aren't as good as they are bad.

i like cc'ing as nilla/lawyer in jan 2 just to throw people off. it's interesting how the setup meta changes over time.

link to setup?

nowadays, i would stick a strongman in setup 2 to give mafia something to fight doc/watcher with and i would still switch the mafia roles for setup 1/4 since hooker is unnecessarily strong in setup 1 (and they can't touch bomb) and framer is too weak for setup 4.

which is what i did when i comped my TEO as ryuko. but i also removed whispers, which i guess turned it into not-TEO

Renaldo

so then I assume DEO was made to try and mitigate that, but it ended up being worse?

deo suffered from the same problem as teo except setup 4 wasn't as horribly townsided. but the change in meta led DEO to be ever more townsided since there weren't a ton of mafia wins from the bad-meta times to buffer the winrate

Giga13

teo is a rare sort of setup in that meta in it changed more than once and was still popular throughout the years

not vet enough.

jan 2.0's meta changed too. it used to be lawyer that cc'd cop (since it meant no inno could ever be clear). then when people started catching on to how risky and horrible that is if lawyer gets lynched, it switched to nilla. the whole time, jan codes were prevalent so that the ccing pal would know when doc is dead and such like. then, someone wrote a "janitor's gambit" strategy which until then had been unheard of. the whole "gambit" was just... janitor ccing cop. the "risk" was losing the knowledge of the dead role by getting lynched, and the reward was abolishment of jan codes

Giga13

teo is a rare sort of setup in that meta in it changed more than once and was still popular throughout the years

I feel like by the time I joined the site, TEO had pretty much fallen out of favor. I don't think it has seen significant play in comp much at all since I've been around, although it's definitely been comped a few times.

so then I assume DEO was made to try and mitigate that, but it ended up being worse?

teo is a rare sort of setup in that meta in it changed more than once and was still popular throughout the years

thanks for the history lesson.

then the meta was "revolutionised" to be heavily in town's favour by having claims be collected in whispers. either cop was cc'd, clearing the remaining two town PRs, or all PRs were cc'd, and a massclaim ensued (which was always better than the cop cc meta regardless, funnily enough)

there was a degree of "not knowing the setup" but since s1/s2 and s3/s4 had common PRs no one really got confused or worried as to which PR was real and which wasn't

two mafia used to cc cop with each other in setup 2

it was a coinflip between "setup1 or setup2/setup3 or setup4"

setup1 vs setup2 was the only one mafia really had a chance at
setup 3 is just SDS with a ML
setup 4 is town victory unless mafia get a lucky frame or a PR kill night 1

original setup meta was cop cc's day 1, with setup 1 being uncc'd cop and setup 2 being mafia claimedin uncc'd cop.

i think the setup has fallen so heavily out of favor though that it's not as bad as it's perceived to be. unless the original setup meta was wildly different, that is.

mist

he's just saying that establishing a firm meta like that limited mafia options. even if it is the best town strat, like renaldo says strong metas make the game a bit more structured for mafia which dampens the fun of playing maf.

still, props on a 10/10 strat for a cool setup.

sure

people may not know that that strategy was intentionally designed for newer players as a part of the mentoring program and for other mentors to use when teaching it. rip to that though

to be fair, the meta made TEO (slightly) less chaotic. its hard to make a 10p game function without 3 silencers :P

TEO setup 4 is autowin for town unless a PR dies night 1